Have You Used "Preen"?
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Has anyone used this product? It supposedly keeps anything at all from growing wherever it is applied. It seems VERY unnatural to me, but am tempted to use it between stones on a path. I've tried and tried to get mosses, thymes, etc. to grow there and get nothing but weeds and grass. It's a difficult area because it is a narrow side area between houses. It is shaded by the houses except for the hottest sun of the day....11am-3pm. This is lower zone 7. Any suggestions? I have had blooms from thyme in that area on the sides of the walkway, but nothing wants to grow between the stones. The gardening magazines cheat, I'm sure of it! They probably stick the stuff down with glue for the photo session! ;-/
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(post #13075, reply #1 of 14)
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Yikes! Don't use the PREEN! Think about it, if it will kill anything what will it do to all the little micro-organisms that do all that work in the soil...Now, as for your problem: Considering you are a zone 7 and get 11-3 direct sun you should have no problem growing thyme. Moss would probably not grow because of too much sun and dry. We usually sell "Wooly", creeping or mother of thyme for in between flagstone, etc. Keep in mind that you should plant it in the spring (now) and keep it moist until it gets established (very important!) Although it will be quite successful it still does need soil to grow in. If your stones are too tight together you may be out of luck, but if there are a few inches wide/deep it should work. We have a spot at the nursery I always like to show customers because the space the plants actually grow in is so small but the plant will creep all over the stones once it's established. Give it some time (pun intended:) My personal preference is Wooly because it is so low and has a pretty, fuzzy gray/blue/green color, but it is a bit slow getting started. If you get totally exasperated and want to just kill everything (tho' I do hope you'll give the thyme a try) an alternative to CHEMICALs is to simply boil water and pour it into the areas. It may take repeated application, but will eventually get rid of those weeds. Be patient and Good Luck!
PS I think you are right, tho' that sometimes the magazines do cheat :) but we'll forgive them - at least FG
(post #13075, reply #2 of 14)
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Thanks for your suggestions. I probably won't use the product. It would have to be a nasty thing to stop all growth.
I'm aware that the area is too sunny for mosses, but when we first moved here, I didn't realize the amount of sun to the area....takes a bit of living in a place to see.
The stones are laid with varying widths between, but enough room for roots if the soil underneath is sufficient. We have clay soil and the stones were laid on a bed of sand, so the soil under the pathway is not amended.
I've already tried 3 or 4 thymes between the stones. Mother Of thyme gets too big, wooly didn't make it (haven't had luck with it anywhere but really like it), and a couple of other tiny ones didn't live or were overtaken by clover. So far, lemon thyme does best in the area, but still won't live between the stones. Evidently the soil is sadly lacking to support growth. Maybe clover is the only answer? Darned stuff wants to take over the rest of the area as well.....and never will I put a sprig of Creeping Jenny in the ground again!
(post #13075, reply #3 of 14)
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Preen and its kind are *pre-emergents*. They inhibit seeds from sprouting. There's nothing wrong with using them. If there's stuff already growing there, you'll have to kill it with something else first, then use Preen to keep unwanted weeds from sprouting. You can use it in established beds, it won't hurt plants that are already growing.
(post #13075, reply #4 of 14)
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Creeping thyme has worked really well for me ... and I planted it in a horrible mixture of "crusher dust" (gravel) and compacted soil. (The fill in the centers of "allen blocks") Being miserly, I bought 2 - 4" pots of thyme from nursery, removed plants, tore it into about 3 pieces each,then literally scraped a hole, and layered it in and watered. By summer's end, EACH had spread to about 10 inches across at least and still doing very well. (Rainy cold winters, hot dry summers, strong sun from sunrise to about 1PM.) I think the EXCELLENT drainage provided by crusher dust is the key to its success.
(post #13075, reply #5 of 14)
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I won't argue about the merits of using a product like Preen, but if you are going to use it a helpful hint is to apply it when the Forsynthia stats to bloom, which is now in my zone 6 garden.
(post #13075, reply #6 of 14)
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Jeana is right. Preen only goes after germanating seeds.
Last summer I created a new planting mound from the soil I dug out for another new bed. I turned all this soil dirt side up and covered with manure and hardwood mulch. Finally a sprinkling of Preen (follow product directions) and this Spring I have a new mound that is ready to plant and completely weed free.
(post #13075, reply #7 of 14)
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Does anyone know the mechanism involved? Are the seeds destroyed as they germinate, or does it just suppress germination?
In other words, does the problem of unwanted growth go away, or is it merely postponed until the effect wears off - about 3 months according to the package?
(post #13075, reply #8 of 14)
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As it was explained to me by a chemist working at the University of TN, pre-emergents work chemically to prevent seeds from breaking dormancy. It won't kill sprouted seeds. In the late winter/early spring, we have a HUGE number of emerging weed seeds waiting for it to get warm enough for them to break dormancy. By using a pre-emergent, they won't sprout when conditions are ideal for them. But you'll have to use it as per the instructions in order to keep at bay weeds that sprout at different times of the growing season. I have a precious few things that I want to seed in my beds, so I don't use any at this time. But I'm kicking myself for not getting any out for the crabgrass! Oh well...it's green.
(post #13075, reply #9 of 14)
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I don't think you need to fret about the chemicals in Preen. It works for one season. If you want to test just forget to put it down as I did and you'll see how readily things will pop up. I have no quibble with plants like creeping thyme growing in the cracks of our flagstone terrace; it's the other stuff (not so lovely) that makes for trouble. Best solution for me: plants in the garden beds, clean sweep on the terrace.
(post #13075, reply #10 of 14)
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KenB, PREEN is a "pre-emergence" herbicide just as Jeana has indicated. It forms a barrier on the soil surface that inhibits the emergence of seeds, much the same as the crab grass preventer we lay down by the ton each year.
Plants that are already growing are not effected by this herbicide. Should you till the soil in the area where a pre-emergent has been applied, the barrier is broken and germinating seedlings will continue to grow.
There are few herbicides on the market, available to the home gardener, that will suppress growth forever - as you seem to desire ;) . Many very effective chemicals have been removed just because they were TOO effective, leaving a high residual that could not be rapidly broken down by natural means.
PREEN is a safe product when used as the manufacturer states, but no chemical can "do it all" or completely replace the hoe!
(post #13075, reply #11 of 14)
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There's a REALLY safe pre-emergent on the market now, made from corn. This was developed by scientists at one of the midwestern state universities (where I picture people working day and night to find more uses for corn). It's just corn gluten, the protein left over after making corn starch. So it's not only non-hazardous, it's theoretically edible.
I used it last year, and worked well for me. Sorry, I don't remember what it was called. The label makes it pretty clear that it's a corn product.
Janet
(post #13075, reply #12 of 14)
I find I have to store my corn gluten in a metal container, because the wild critters try to get into it and eat it.
(post #13075, reply #13 of 14)
Preen will prevent desired ground covers from spreading. I read this on the Preen web site and also found it to be so in my garden. I'm trying to get these to spread in my SoCal garden: Viola odorata, liriope grass, and ajuga. Also St. John's Wort.
(post #13075, reply #14 of 14)
"Preen" is probably useful for people that leave their soil exposed to the ravages of the wind, sun, and rain, but it is of no use to those of us that properly mulch our soil so it is protected from those ravages.
The other day I saw a pallet of "Preen" with a label on it that said "not for sale, use, or distribution in the State of New York". I am not sure what that is all about, but apparently something that cannot be sold in New York is perfectly okay in Michigan. (shudder)
West central Michigan along the lake shore
A sign of a good gardener is not a green thumb, rather it is brown knees.
West central Michigan along the lake shore
A sign of a good gardener is not a green thumb, rather it is brown knees.