Stupid Question #473/ Planting Depths ?
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Is seed, bulb, bush, & tree planting depth ALL THAT CRUCIAL ? Are ya 's out in the field with itty bitty gauges ? Is there a rule of thumb on this ? Thank you :>
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(post #14329, reply #1 of 15)
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That's not a dumb question at all! When I plant bulbs I do usually bring a ruler of some kind with me--if I don't, I notice that the holes I dig get shallower and shallower as I go along! (It's amazing how deep 7" can be in hard soil.) I don't think it matters whether it's 6.5" or 7.5", but it does matter. Planting bulbs too shallowly might prevent them from surviving the winter, and they might get pushed up to the surface of the soil by freezing and thawing. Plant them a foot deep and they may never come up.
For seeds, I've never tried to measure 1/8" or anything like that. I think of them as don't cover (needs light in order to germinate), cover just a little bit (small seeds or small seedlings), or cover thickly (needs darkness to germinate or big seeds). Knowing if the seed requires light or dark is majorly important.
For bareroot or container-grown plants (trees and shrubs included), it also matters somewhat. I can't think of a case where an exact measured depth matters, but most plants should be planted at the depth they were previously. Too deep and the crown might rot--too shallow and they might dry out. If the plant is potted, you just want to keep it at the same soil level in the ground. For bareroot plants you can usually see where the soil line was. Sometimes it's good to plant something more deeply. Tomato plants, for example, can be planted much more deeply than they were growing. They don't rot, they just form more roots along the stem. It all depends on the plant, but sticking with the depth at which they were growing is the best idea unless you have a particular reason not to.
Also, some shrubs (like many roses) are grafted together from different root and top stock. Here in the frozen north, we have to make sure the graft is below the soil. Otherwise, the entire top part (the plant you want) could get killed, leaving the root stock to produce some strange plant you didn't want. In warmer climates, I think it's usually recommended to keep the graft above the soil. Then you can cut off any growth that comes from below the soil because it's from the root stock (the stuff you don't want).
So I think it does matter in most cases, but you don't have to be hyper-exact. (Of course, I'm not really hyper-exact about anything, so others may have a different opinion.) It's best to know what effect the planting depth might have--know why it matters in any given situation. If you have questions about any specific situations, I'm sure someone here will have answers. And you'll get a feel for it as you go along.
I hope that helps just a little!
(post #14329, reply #2 of 15)
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Precisely. Well said, Elizabeth. The only thing I might debate is the practice of burying the graft union. I tend to mulch above this point in winter, but clear the mulch away come the growing season. This reduces the possibility that the upper portion of the grafted plant might send out roots, thus by-passing the traits for which it was grafted to a different rootstock.
(post #14329, reply #3 of 15)
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Like Bill, I prefer to keep the graft union above the soil, mulching it after the first hard freeze.
I've seen lots of planting trowels that are calibrated in inches along the length of the blade; the one I use is. It helps a bit when trying to dig holes of a certain depth.
(post #14329, reply #4 of 15)
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Elisabeth said it all. One thing I have noticed with spring bulbs is that every one that is showing growth right now, that I have checked, has the top of the bulb down only about as deep as the first knuckle of my index finger, much too shallow. Last fall when we were planting the bulbs at church I had to instruct many of those helping to plant the bulbs deeper since they were putting them in just under the surface and we found many of the bulbs at the Monet Garden the same while planting pansies. You do have some leeway, ie. Peonies eyes should only be about an inch deep, on some things but most plants have certain needs that need to be met.
(post #14329, reply #5 of 15)
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I think one reason why you don't bury the graft union is that it could encourage sucker growth from the roots, which you don't want. You want growth only on the graft itself.
(post #14329, reply #6 of 15)
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Stacy. GO to the blackboard and write 100 times.
b "I am not stupid and I do not ask stupid questions."
BJ
(post #14329, reply #7 of 15)
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What would you guys do with potted bulbs where the planting depth is supposed to be 18 inches, but the things are in full foliage in the pots with the tops of the bulbs at the surface? My crinums were like this, and I was afraid to bury all the foliage to get the bulbs to that depth. Luckily it's been a mild winter, and the roots are supposed to pull the bulbs down. But this wasn't the first time I have run into trying to decide whether to bury the foliage with the bulb.
(post #14329, reply #8 of 15)
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Theoretically speaking, I'd either sink the pots in, or put the plants in at the depth they are at already. Once they go dormant, I'd replant the bulbs at the correct depth. Leaving them potted and sinking the pots in the ground would leave me a reminder to replant them and prevent damaging the bulb(s) when digging to replant.
(post #14329, reply #9 of 15)
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Just jumping in here to muddy the waters about burying the graft union. Among rose fanciers, many people will bury the graft union HOPING that the plant above the graft will then develop it's own root system. They then end up with an own root plant, which is hardier in the long term than a grafted plant. Usually, well, at least with roses, plants are grafted solely for ease of commerce: grafted plants grow faster and can be propagated on a large scale basis much easier than own root plants.
(post #14329, reply #10 of 15)
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Oops, one more point on burying the graft with roses...many roses might be listed as hardy in a particular zone, but it might not be cane hardy, ie., it will die back to the ground, or *if* there is a particularly harsh winter and the rose will die back to the ground. If that happens, if you have not buried the graft union, you will end up with a rose bush of the rootstock. This is why alot of people purchase a pink or yellow rose and are surprised when the next year they end up with a red rose (red multiflora is a common rose rootstock). :-0 If the graft was planted 3 or more inches below the surface and the budded plant was able to develop it's own roots, then it should grow back true.
(post #14329, reply #11 of 15)
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I have to agree with David. I've had that problem and often leave them in the pot until them go dormant for fear of planting them correctly and rotting them from the crown. I don't think I'd go 18" down with your crinums, though. I've had them, and they didn't need to be that deep. Maybe a foot from the bottom of the hole. And they're hard enough to move when they're that deep. And you're in a warmer zone than I am.
(post #14329, reply #12 of 15)
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I mulched them very well because they were so shallow. The Ellen Bosquanet died back but C. x powellii is still trying to be green. I'll go ahead and dig them and plant a little deeper next month.
Jeana, when you say you had them, does that mean they didn't winter over for you?
(post #14329, reply #13 of 15)
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No, it means I gave them away.
And I never measure anything.
(post #14329, reply #14 of 15)
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As someone explained the natural depth something should be planted at does vary and is a given. Too shallow and something may freeze or dry out, too deep and it will never warm enough to want to sprout and grow. So you can use your thumb, if you measure it first! and you won't lose it or drop it without thinking.
(post #14329, reply #15 of 15)
General rule for bulbs.. 2-3 times the width. Bulds vary in size so planting depths do also. As for trees and shrubs...If you buy a containewrized plant whether tree , shrub , perennial, whatever...Make sure they ( the plant distributors or sellers )have'nt added soil to the container which is almost always the case.
This would make " the same height they are in the original container " incorrect. . Never asssume the depth i the container is the proper depth. That can change during shipping ...( Too little , to much ). The correct height to plant a tree or shrub is at or slightly above the first root flare. This may be buried by the potting material placed in the container. Dig carefully down tuill you see ther 1rst root flare, (anchor ) that comesa off the tree and plant it with that slightly above the toop of the soil line.
I have seen this and experienced it many times both in mail order and really qualified experienced nurserys as well. You have to check carefully the plant is at the right depth to begin with.
As for B & B trees ..I never buy a B & B tree because they never take enough rootball to support the top growth. I would but a bare-root before ever buying a B & B . At least you can see what youAre truly dealing with as far as roots.
Just my experience. I also remove almost all the planting soil that comes fro mail order or nurseries and rinse the dirt , potting soil , pine bark mulch, The most used potting material now used by most shippers and distibutors because it's less weight...and hardly adequate for good root growth.
It also has the added benefit of removing any soil dwelling pests and soil borne disease from your purchase. Does'nt take that long to do and ensures tree and shrub success. Just a thought. The one Mapleman.