Rocks supporting slope
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I am trying to find information on how to correctly lay large rocks on a slope. I searched here and books I have but no info. Three quarters out my front yard it drops off about 3 feet (at the max). I have the rocks that were placed there before but I want to shuffle them around. But I was stumped on the best way to lay and secure them.
Thanks for any info or direction to good info.
steve
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(post #14321, reply #1 of 34)
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Hmmmmm, I don't know if there is any. Personally I'd lay the rock as I see fit. Rearrange, if they're not too massive! Larger at the bottom and then going smaller as you go up.
(post #14321, reply #2 of 34)
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3 ft drop shouldn't require extensive engineering. I personally would lay up a dry wall, no mortar. Make sure you avoid vertical joints, just like a brick wall. Overlap the stones, use smaller stones to make the wall tight and let the larger stones tie the whole thing together. Most would recommend digging a trench for a foundation and filling it with crushed stone, back filling with crushed stone between the wall and the hill would also be recommended. The crushed stone serves to drain away water that in winter would freeze and expand, slowly loosening the rocks and upsetting the wall. Laying up the wall without mortar also lets water drain away and the wall can settle and move a bit over time without leaving cracked mortar joints. If you don't get really cold weather or your soil is already well drained this won't be an issue.
Digging a level foundation can be an important issue if your stones are really consistent in size and thickness. When you have a lot of stones of consistent thickness, an uneven foundation (or uneven settling) will telegraph up into the wall in a noticable way. If you rocks are of random size, this probably won't be an issue.
Retain some of the larger stones for cap rocks, it will look nice and they will be harder to knock loose. If you can lean the wall back into the slope a bit gravity will help hold it in place as well.
Don't skimp on wall width if you can avoid it. A wider wall will look better and last longer, just remember that you will have to lay stones so that they tie the wall together accross the length as well as width.
Get as many rocks as you can get your hands on. You will really want a large selection as you go along so that you have a good chance of always finding a stone that fits each spot. Ideally you need more stone than you end up using for the wall, and you can use them for backfill.
Have fun and enjoy it, laying up a nice wall is very satisfying.
Books:
The Forgotten Art of Building a Stone Wall : An Illustrated Guide to Dry Wall Construction
by Curtis P. Fields
This is a good book, but may be out of print.
(post #14321, reply #3 of 34)
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Respectful bow to Mr. Flather, good info. Another great book on the subject is Stone Work by John Jerome, a well written and entertaining work that delves into the philosophy as well as practical issues. If I recall correctly, Storey publishing may also have a handbook on wall building.
Drainage is important, especially if you are in an area that is subject to freeze/thaw cycles. This includes both below and behind the wall, so be sure to excavate appropriately before starting to build. This is not a week-end project, so you will want to do it right the first time.
Safety is an issue. Even a six pound rock can incapacitate you if mishandled, so know what you are doing before hand, and go into the project prepared. I have built several rock walls on my land, some retaining walls, some free-standing, and all have left their mark on me.
And maybe check this out.
"Even a round stone has a flat side if you look at it long enough."
(post #14321, reply #4 of 34)
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Thanks for the great feedback. I guess I wasn't that clear. It's not so much a wall but large rocks placed to keep the shape of the slope. I don't know if there is much more to it than making sure the heavier side is down but I'm not an expert and don't want them to move. We will be planting flowers or other small plants in between the rocks too.
Thanks,
steve
(post #14321, reply #5 of 34)
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Steve, I would let common sense dictate how you place the stones then. If the slope is steep, you would want to seat them into the slope so that they are not unsteady, again, let gravity help you. They shouldn't move appreciably unless they are undermined by erosion or you have some serious slumping or are placed such that they are top-heavy. Sounds like this is more of a sloped rock garden? Your plantings and mulch will also help to hold the slope in place and prevent erosion.
(post #14321, reply #6 of 34)
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Yes, sloped rock garden. Thanks, maybe once I get the terms down I can ask a decent question...
steve
(post #14321, reply #7 of 34)
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Steve, how about some more details? What is the degree of slope you're dealing with and what kind of climate are you in? I have been collecting references on rock gardening for a while now. Hopefully one day (soon) I'll have time to make one. Here are a couple of links with advice on stone placement and how to fit plants and rocks together for best results.
http://www.thealpinegarden.com/rockgarden2.htm
http://www.nargs.org/gardening/rockgardening.html#construction
I know that Jeana has a rock garden and may be able to help, I don't know who else might have first hand experience.
(post #14321, reply #8 of 34)
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Oh great! Book titles. I have sloped areas that need reinforcement and have wondered how to go about it. I see pictures in magazines and go "that's what I want! how'd they do that???"
(post #14321, reply #9 of 34)
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Sorry, Steve,
I fear I misread your post, too. It sounds on further reading as if you are dealing with much larger stones than we had originally assumed... but the physics involved remain the same. It is simply a matter of how you move the darn things (one must assume heavy hydraulic powered equipment,) but the drainage and lay-out issues are consistent. Check resources that describe road-building and erosion practices for large-scale projects on Google. It's out there...
(post #14321, reply #10 of 34)
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Karen,
It's a rock garden, gee, I'm learning all the time. The first link is more of what I will probably do. Now to figure out which one will be the keystone...
steve
(post #14321, reply #11 of 34)
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Steve, I did a project in my back yard that sounds like what you're planning to do. I did some of the rock placement myself, but had to call in the professionals for the really big rocks. I'm going to try to attach some before, during and after photos.
Here's a "before" photo. Too many dinky little rocks in the rock garden, the steps are too small and my goal was to eliminate all the grass in the back yard.
(post #14321, reply #12 of 34)
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Here's a photo right after all the rocks were in place. The smaller ones I placed myself, but I needed help with the steps.
(post #14321, reply #13 of 34)
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The guys installing the steps.
(post #14321, reply #14 of 34)
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The first spring after the rocks were installed.
(post #14321, reply #15 of 34)
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The second year around June. As you can see it's still a work-in-progress. But now I get to do the fun stuff like pick out tiny little plants to go in the garden.
(post #14321, reply #16 of 34)
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Great job, Cynthia. Great pics too.
BJ
(post #14321, reply #17 of 34)
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Neat! I love the photos of different stages! Thanks for posting them.
(post #14321, reply #18 of 34)
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Wow! Double wow!!!
(post #14321, reply #19 of 34)
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Nice going, Cynthia, congratuations! I hope you're pleased with yourself. I would be.
(post #14321, reply #20 of 34)
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Beautiful, Cynthia! The design is very pleasing to the eye.
(post #14321, reply #21 of 34)
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Cynthia, what is the large shrub along the back there?
(post #14321, reply #22 of 34)
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Really beautiful. I'm impressed how mature it looks after only two years.
(post #14321, reply #23 of 34)
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How 'bout some "before" pictures, Steve?
(post #14321, reply #24 of 34)
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Cynthia, that's beautiful!! Thanks for the pics. Did you design it yourself?
(post #14321, reply #25 of 34)
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That needs to be in FG.
(post #14321, reply #26 of 34)
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Gorgeous, Cynthia! Steve, I think you've found your inspiration right there.
(post #14321, reply #27 of 34)
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Awesome, girl!!
(post #14321, reply #28 of 34)
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I'm awe struck!
(post #14321, reply #29 of 34)
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Cynthia,
Your garden looks great! That's pretty much what I am trying to accomplish, although my rocks are the bulkier kind instead of flat. I rented a backhoe and bobcat last weekend, moved them around but I'm not sure it's coming together right. Hopefully adding the plants will cover up my errors.
steve
(post #14321, reply #30 of 34)
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Karen, There are so may shrubs, I'm not sure which ones you mean. I do have rhodys that are over 8 feet tall. They are the ones behind the guy in the black shirt. Are those what you meant?