Roses for '02
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I can remember telling Jeana, at one point late last summer, that maybe I was growing a bit tired of roses.......
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(post #13836, reply #1 of 75)
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......NOT!!!
Well, I've gotten the catalog clutter in the dining room straightened out a bit, and am beginning to make up my ordering lists. I went through my favorites over the weekend, and this morning gravitated to the Heirloom Roses catalog. So much for tiring of roses. :-)
Here's what's currently on the list:
(Griffith Buck roses) - 'Aunt Honey', 'Prarie Star'
(English Legend Roses) - 'Celtic Pride', 'Lady Jabe Grey', 'Margaret Merril', 'Thornbury Castle', 'Tower Bridge' (I really liked the pics and descriptions of the last two).
(Abundance roses) Cream, Lemon, and Pink (the descriptions of these seem too good to be true).
I find myself gravitating to 'own-root' roses; Ann convinced me of that a while back, and the Heirloom catalog makes a similarly convincing argument. I also used their classification of 'VDR' (very disease resistant) as a kind of yardstick when it came to making selections. And, for some reason, I couldn't find a red rose that I much cared for. I planted "Othello" last year, and it did quite well, but that's not really a 'red' rose, more of a scarlet or burgundy or whatever.
I have to keep reminding myself I'm on a budget this year. I'm already up over $200; these little suckers add up fast.
I know Ann has ordered a bunch of roses for this spring - anybody else?
(post #13836, reply #2 of 75)
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Very good, Eric!! I also use the "VDR" classification for choosing roses. One note about Heirloom, I do notice that they seem to rate the zone hardiness a bit more lax than alot of other rose catalogs. So, if they have a rose listed as being hardy to zone 6, everyone else has it hardy to zone 5.
I decided not to order from Heirloom anymore, unless it's a rose I HAVE to have and no one else offers it. They have good stock, but they are just so small it takes a couple of years for the roses to do anything.
I am going to try the American Rose Emporium this year. They sell own root roses in 2 gallon pots. Another vendor that I ordered some roses from last summer is Sam Kedem. He sells them in 1 and 2 gallon sizes and his roses did very well for me last summer, even though I got them in the hottest part of July.
But, I think alot of the roses you picked are only offered by Heirloom.
Hmmm, Abundance Roses, eh? They do sound nice... :-)
(post #13836, reply #3 of 75)
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I know what you mean about the size of the Heirloom roses, Ann; that's something that made me hesitate. However, I haven't placed the order, yet, so I'll check out the two vendors you mentioned.
I was really attracted to the cold-hardiness aspect of the Griffith Buck roses. I'll do a web-search and see if there's another supplier that offers them at a bigger size.
(post #13836, reply #4 of 75)
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I just checked out Sam Kedem's webpage and he has a lot of Buck's roses, including the ones you have on your list.
http://www.kedemroses.com
:-)
(post #13836, reply #5 of 75)
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Thank you, ma'am!!
(post #13836, reply #6 of 75)
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No problem, Eric, I love enabling others! ;-)
Of course, now you've gone and sparked my rose fever and I'm making a new list of must have roses! :-(
(post #13836, reply #7 of 75)
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Which roses do you guys find are the least maintenance? I loved my little red rose in the pot last year and have been considering adding a shrub rose to the front bed if I can get the deer to leave it alone. There is no way I'll ever adhere to any kind of spraying regimen, life just never gets into any kind of routine for me. I also hate that chemical smell that permeates the formal rose garden at Duke. My only other requirement is that it has to smell good. Rebloom is nice but less important to me than good foliage. As a real rose novice, I'm very interested in first hand opinions.
(post #13836, reply #8 of 75)
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I totally agree with you, Karen. Many of the people on the rose forum laugh about how they get into their protective suit for weekly spraying of the roses -- this includes a respirator!! Then, they cut these roses and bring them into their house to smell?!? Not in my garden! I also don't have the time for weekly spraying.
I got into antique or old garden roses (OGR) last year. The OGR classification is for roses that were developed before 1867, so not alot of chemical assistance back then. Many of these roses had been lost but were "found" in cemetaries and old farmsteads thriving without any assistance.
I got several last year, and also a couple of modern shrubs roses that were classified in the catalogs as being disease resistant, as Eric noted. They all seemed to do well, little to no disease. The ones that did get blackspot and or mildew, were not terribly affected by it. It doesn't tend to defoliate the whole bush, and they continued to grow and put on new growth. So, I'm convinced.
The OGRs tend to be once bloomers, but some of them are so magnificent in flower profusion and fragrance that I think it is worth it. Imagine a 6-7' bush covered with thousands of blossoms, with it's fragrance wafting through your garden. :-) There is also the benefit that you don't have to worry about the Japanese Beetles as much with the once bloomers.
I would be hesitant to recommend a rose for you, since you are in such a different climate than mine. But, you should be able to grow alot of roses that I can't -- Chinas, Bourbons, and Teas are pretty much only hardy to zone 6. You should be careful to pick out blackspot resistant varieties, since I would think you would be in prime blackspot climate.
The American Rose Emporium has some good info about growing OGRs and hardy roses.
http://www.antiqueroseemporium.com
There is also Chamblee Roses:
http://www.chambleeroses.com/antique_catalog.htm
I think they are in South Carolina, so they should offer roses that should do well in your climate. There is also Ashdown Roses, which is also on South Carolina, so again, they should be able to recommend some good disease resistant roses for your area.
http://www.ashdownroses.com
Rosebud has a nice rose garden, so she might have some suggestions for what would grow in your climate.
(post #13836, reply #9 of 75)
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I bought a low shrub rose at Walmart last week, a single yellow named Pimpernelle, and it has been planted out on the turn around where the crab apple tree is. I am going to let it get as big as it wants to so I gave it plenty of space. I really like the pretty simplicity of single roses, fancier roses make me nervous!
(post #13836, reply #10 of 75)
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Karen, I can't really improve on Ann's wonderfully comprehensive response. As noted in the past, I've tended towards teas and floribundas, a habit I'm going to break this year. One of my favorites, and I guess it qualifies as a shrub rose, is a David Austin rose named "Bow Bells". Late last summer I let things go a bit, and black spot hit everything I've got. This one held up the best, was never denuded, and continued to bloom nicely (I think there were four flushes that season). I've got three, and they all vary in size depending on where they're planted. It seems to have the potential for growing as high as 5 or 6 feet. Not overly fragrant, tho'. Here's a pic I posted once upon a time:
(post #13836, reply #11 of 75)
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Hmmm, that's interesting, Astrid. Do you know what classification it is. There is a wild or species rose, that I'm pretty sure has yellow flowers, called Pimpinellifolia. But, I can't imagine that Walmart would carry such an esoteric item! I'll have to go check my rose books and see what type the Pimpernelle is.
I have developed an appreciation for the single flowers. I have 3 so far, Golden Wings, a pretty and fragrant yellow shrub, Dortmund a striking red climber, and R. Spinossissima or Scotch Briar, a yellow wild rose. There is one that I dearly wish I could grow up here, but she is only hardy to zone 6. She's actually a Hybrid Tea, but reportedly pretty disease resistant. Dainty Bess, beautiful silvery pink blossoms, with deep maroon stamens. So pretty. Sigh...
(post #13836, reply #12 of 75)
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Oh, Eric, that BowBells is beautiful!! Is the picture of your bush?? Thanks for mentioning that. I would like to try a David Austin rose, but I've heard so many bad things about his roses in zone 5 that I've been hesitant to try them. I've never heard of this one and think I will check it out....sigh, another one to add to my growing list!
(post #13836, reply #13 of 75)
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karen-and all!! The 2 best "First" roses I have sugessted to all my friends and family, (and have bought for some of them)are "Carefree Wonder" (Hate that name..).it is so beautiful...deep pink inner petal with a lighter exterior...very hardy and blooms more than any of my many roses, aphids are never on it...smells sweet..it is a shrub rose which I think are the best looking as far as an overall look..never spindly...My second recommendation is "Heritage" A David Austin rose..I have more of his roses than any other...I am addicted to the colors, shape and form...The only one I have had trouble with was "Bibi Mazoon" weak stems but the flowers are stunning. "Othello " is my favorite flower... ..."Graham Stuart Thomas" is stunning warm yellow...very strong but took three years to reach maturity...people stop and stare...I never use chemicals.I just feed them and put as much manure on them in the spring as I can...or fish emulsion...my Aunt uses a combination of alfalfa pellets and epsom salt (I am not sure of the proportions)I pick off aphids and Japanese beatles by hand..it seems to work alright! ok..I will go on if I do not stop...have fun!!
(post #13836, reply #14 of 75)
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Yes, Ann, that's one of mine in the pic. I'm glad you like it - are you concerned about winter hardiness? I've not had any problems with this one.
(post #13836, reply #15 of 75)
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No, Ann, I don't. It was just in a pot with a name tag tied to the stem that said Pimpernelle, and a picture on the side of the pot of a single yellow rose.
(post #13836, reply #16 of 75)
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I looked it up -- it's a modern shrub rose, bred in 1997. No other info on it.
(post #13836, reply #17 of 75)
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Agree about the Austins, particularly Heritage. Othello has beautiful flowers, but is one thorny sucker. My current fave is Pat Austin-the colors are a little "hot" for an English rose, but it sure lights up the bed.
(post #13836, reply #18 of 75)
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RE: David Austins, they just don't seem to thrive in zone 5, even though they are supposed to be hardy. My friend, who lives a few miles from me, has Heritage and Graham Thomas and they are puny little bushes and only have a few blooms in the spring. They don't die back, but they just don't really grow well. They are 4 or 5 years old, so they should be well established by now. I've read on the rose forum other people in zone 5 have similar experiences.
I do love the David Austins, I love the old rose form and the fragrance.
(post #13836, reply #19 of 75)
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Re: Chamblee roses. They are in Texas. I bought some last year after Rosebud sent me the link. I was real pleased with what they sent. We had a dry summer and I don't water much so their performance is not known but Eric could get a couple dozen from them on a $200 budget.
BJ The Gardeners Husband
(post #13836, reply #20 of 75)
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Hm, thanks for the info Ann. I have already broken one of its smaller branches by tromping on it while checking the mulch around the crab apple. Good thing roses grow so quickly.
I have an Evelyn, David Austin, which is a very strong bloomer, it didn't stop until after a hard frost. The plant itself is a little light, with sort of thin canes, but they do hold the blossoms well, and it forms a nice sort of a round cascade when it is in full bloom. And the fragrance is even better than the perfume.
(post #13836, reply #21 of 75)
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Great choices, Eric. I like own rooted roses too. I have had really horrible luck with grafted roses. My "Souvenir de la Malmaison" kept blooming well after the first few killing frosts. I believe it was still in bloom Christmas!
(post #13836, reply #22 of 75)
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Ann, I agree about the David Austins here. I tried the Graham Stuart Thomas and had to pull it up after two years even though I winter protected it. I haven't had much luck with roses. Since we are in the same zone perhaps you cam recommend one of those heirlooms you were talking about. Maybe I'll get brave and try again.
Eric...
i loved
the photo! So beautiful AND healthy.
(post #13836, reply #23 of 75)
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Thanks, Madeleine. It confuses me that there are so many zone fivers reporting bad luck with David Austin roses. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm in some kind of micro-climate here. That particular Bow Bells seems to do very well, and it doesn't really receive any winter protection. Hmmm.
(post #13836, reply #24 of 75)
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Ann, Kedem Roses is turning out to be a wonderful place to browse. I wish the site was a bit more 'shopper friendly', but you can't have everything, I suppose. :-)
I can't find the "American Rose Emporium" you mentioned earlier. Could you have meant "Antique Rose Emporium"?
(post #13836, reply #25 of 75)
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Eric, it has been noted on the rose forum that there seem to be differences within the same zones. For example, northeast zone 5 is different from the midwest zone 5, which is different from the northwest zone 5 and the same roses don't necessarily behave the same. Same for the difference between the mid-atlantic zones 6 and 7 and zone 6 and 7 in other regions. That's why I suggested Karen get recommendations from a rose supplier in her area. Makes it difficult to pick roses. Some David Austins do well, New Dawn is taking over my friend's porch, even though she did have a lot of die back (probably about 1/3 of the plant) last winter. But, last winter was a really bad one here.
Madeliene, last year was my first year with roses, so it's hard for me to say for sure what will do well here, I'm going from what I've read and what's worked for other people. Two roses that I can definately recommend are the two singles I mentioned: Golden Wings, a nice yellow, repeat bloomer, soft fragrance. It's a fairly small bush, should get to be about 3'x3'. It did get blackspot at the end of last summer, but it was putting out so much new growth, that it never looked bad and even though I got it in July and it's pretty small, it gave me 3 flushes of blooms before fall hit. :-)
The other one is Dortmund, a red climber. The blossoms are a beautiful, bright red. I have it about 50' from the house, and from that distance the red blossoms look like butterflies against the dark green foliage. The foliage was also pretty in the fall, it turned a rudy maroonish color. I got it at the end of June, as a tiny baby from a local nursery. By the end of the season one long cane was about 6 feet long, and it had a lot of other new canes starting up.
Both of those will repeat bloom if you dead head them, and they're actually modern shrubs.
My friend in CT. has Rose de Rescht and has had great success with that. The flowers are a red/magenta color, very sweetly scented and it repeats bloom. I've heard some people on the rose forum say they've had bad luck with this one, but I'm going to give it a try.
William Baffin is another good red climber for our area. But, be careful, he is a house eater. I don't have him, but my friend does and he is huge!
Albas are very hardy in our area. I'm going to get a several of them this year. Madame Hardy, which should get pretty big, like 6' or 7' tall, and just about as wide. White blossoms, that reportedly weigh the branches down so the bush has a cascading effect. Very fragrant. Felicite Parmentier is another small one, about 3' high and wide, light pink and sweetly scented. Amelia is supposed to be a very nice Alba, smallish, 3 or 4 feet high. Soft pink. Also fragrant. These are all once bloomers.
I also have Marie Pavie on order, actually I have 3 of her coming. :-) She's a polyantha, small bush, probably will only get 2'-3' high and wide. Reportedly a bloom machine: constantly in bloom with dozens of very fragrant white blossoms. She's going next to the deck by the kitchen, so the fragrance can waft into the kitchen. :-)
I have Jacque Cartier (or Marchessa Boccella, seems to be some confusion on whether these are the same rose or not). It's supposed to be a repeat bloomer, but it only bloomed once for me last year. The bush itself grew to 4' high last year, and has pretty blue/grey foliage. It got a few small cases of blackspot, but I just pulled the affected leaves off and the bush never looked ratty. So, even though it didn't repeat bloom, it still looked good.
The other ones I have were too young and small for me to comment on whether they will do well here or not. La Reine, which is a repeat blooming Hybrid Perpetual did actually repeat bloom last summer, despite the fact that she was only less than a foot high. The blossoms are a beautiful silvery pink and nice fragrance. I think I posted some pics of her, I'll look around and see if I can find them. But, at the end of the year, 2 out of 3 of her canes died. :-( I'm not sure why. I'll have to see what happens to her this year.
General Kleber is a Moss rose -- the buds look like they have moss on them. :-) He grew alot last year, the best of the bunch as far as growth. He's a once bloomer, but I got him as a tiny baby and I never saw a bloom from him. I'm hoping for good things from him this spring. :-) Very healthy foliage, I never saw any sign of disease on him, despite the fact that he was crowded by a nepeta in front, had a white liatris next to him that died of some fungus, and on the other side was Golden Wings which kept getting blackspot.
Then, I have Tuscany Superb. I got him in mid-July, which is a bad time to get a rose, but he put on some growth before fall, never showed any disease. His blossoms are a beautiful, deep purple. Once bloomer, and no fragrance, unfortunately. I prefer fragrant roses, but I couldn't resist the purple blooms! :-) His foliage was also purplish in the fall.
Then there is Belle Isis -- she's the rose that inspired David Austin to start rose breeding, and she's one of the parents of Constance Spry. She stayed pretty small last year, I'll have to see how she does this year.
OK, that should be enough to get you started. :-)
(post #13836, reply #26 of 75)
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I'm in Mid-atlantic zone 6 and I am disappointed in the 2 David Austin roses I planted - Graham Thomas and Heritage. Both are prone to blackspot, and are indifferent bloomers. Plus the fragrance was highly overrated. Just slight. I decided David Austin's roses are overrated and I won't plant more. When I get around to re-doing that whole bed, they will get shovel pruned and I'll put something a lot nicer in instead.
Ann, thanks for the rose run down. That's a keeper.
Mary
(post #13836, reply #27 of 75)
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Does anybody grow Rosa glauca?
(post #13836, reply #28 of 75)
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Oops, I have a correction, I meant Madame Plantier, not Madame Hardy. Doh! Madame Hardy does have lovely white blooms, but from what I've read, the bush itself is rather scraggly and ugly. Madame Plantier is the one that is supposed to get the beautiful, big, arching shape.
Also, any of the rugosas should do well in northern areas, but be careful. They send up runners and may take over your garden. My friend has Jens Munk and Rotes de Meer, both of which are taking over the her garden. Agnes, a pretty yellow, seems better behaved. I want to get Rosarie de l'Hay, which is supposed to be very fragrant. Oh, so many wants, so little money.... :-)
(post #13836, reply #29 of 75)
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Karen, for all your requirements, you can't beat a good rugosa. If you make it down here, I probably have a runner that you can take home with you. They rebloom, they perfume the air for quite a ways, they need no spraying and no watering once established. Their only downfall (and you can get around this) is that their perfume is so strong that Jap beetles make a beeline right for them. You can either pick off the beetles or you can cut the rose back at the first sign of beetles. By the time the rose comes back out with its second wave of blooms, the beetles are usually gone. Many varieties have nice hips, too.
(post #13836, reply #30 of 75)
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Actually, you can NOT spray rugosas, their leaves will fall off if you do. They may get a bit of blackspot, but spraying them is a big no-no. I just don't know how they do in the south, but if they work for Jeana, they should do fine for you, Karen.