Some comments from the Sprouts

Some comments from the Sprouts (post #15926)

Dagwood on Tue, 12/15/2009 - 07:53

Feedback On Fine Gardening

Hey guys, we've been poking here from time to time to see how the site is evolving, and have noticed that things are progressing.

I think you are aware of a few of the fixes that would be nice from a users perspective, but a bunch of us are going to post here over the course of the day letting you know what we would like to see.

My list is pretty short so far:

Less harsh colours - even if its just swapping out the lime green and grey-green so that the lime green is the sidebar, and the grey-green is in the text boxes. That lime-green is very hard on the eyes.

More edit buttons - but Kate and I have already experimented with that.

Clearer threading - Back in the good old days, before Prospero, the boards were threaded as yours are now, only it was just a title you saw. You clicked the titles to open a message, and the path was clear. Then Prospero came, and it was more difficult to follow threading, but at least you could click the "in reply to" numbers and follow threads back to where they spurred off. I think this iteration of message board technology is less intuitive than either of the others, and much harder to follow.

More intuitive HTML tagging. Some of us know a little BB Code, and some HTML, but many of us wish we had buttons that said "bold" "italic" "List" etc. I am trying to use it a little here just to refresh my memory.

A spelling checker. I have re-read this before posting. Lets see how many spelling errors I missed.

There have been improvements though since the board was created, and we know you are working to bring them up to a higher standard:

We saw our signature lines return. It helps us see who we are talking to!

Threading was a negotiated arrangement We saw you working with us to decide whether threads should be sorted in ascending or descending chronological order.

Your ongoing commitment to us You have made the promise that you would continue to work with us to create a friendlier environment here.

We understand that Taunton has a very high standard in terms of quality, and thta you try to work with the board posters who are some of your most vocal supporters. We hope to continue to work with you to improve and upgrade the website we so much enjoy!

If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree

Aye. It looks as though many (post #15926, reply #1 of 10)

by southernsoil in reply to Dagwood [original] on Tue, 12/15/2009 - 17:17

Aye. It looks as though many sprouts did not pop up today as I expected and hoped for. If you think about it this site is like our garden, in saying that I mean it needs our nurturing to keep it alive. The new format is a alien plant in the garden that is a hybrid in its worst state. I have chosen not to pull it like a weed.
Your comments are felt here too. Today was not a good day for over the fence. I will be here looking and checking on and maybe a little feeding as ofen as I can.

Then again, my garden can (post #15926, reply #2 of 10)

by Karen in reply to southernsoil [original] on Tue, 12/15/2009 - 19:45

Then again, my garden can take a fair amount of abuse and still end up OK.

North Carolina - zone 7

Yes, you are right. I am (post #15926, reply #3 of 10)

by southernsoil in reply to Karen [original] on Tue, 12/15/2009 - 20:04

Yes, you are right. I am starting to wander if the Chief at Taunton even cares. It is obvious the staffers are trying to improve this forum but it seems their hands are tied or this mess would be fixed by now.

Through a link provided on (post #15926, reply #4 of 10)

by the country gardener in reply to southernsoil [original] on Tue, 12/15/2009 - 22:42

Through a link provided on sproutoff it is possible to find that the motivation for this change was not what we have been told here. It was not about needing to upgrade technology. Some highly touted whizzbrain convinced Taunton that they needed to maximize the online advertising revenue by maximizing how long each person checking in stayed on each page. What they never took into account at all, it seems, is the degree to which human beings were responsible both for how long people stayed, how often they visited and why they dropped in here at all. I don't think the delay has anything to do with staff's hands being tied. I think they have a program of development and change that is much longer than we realize. First they put the untested and absolutely disastrous first model out on each of the different forums, then one at a time they try to debug them. The whole process was a botch from the get-go. It would have made so much more sense to dump the model in The Sandbox first and ask us all to try it out and find the flaws before introducing it to the working forums. It was a mistake to ask us what we wanted when they had no intention of neccessarily paying attention to what we said. It has really been horribly mishandled. I honestly believe that the staff we interact with on this forum, namely Kate and Steve, are blameless in this debacle and I deeply appreciate the efforts they have made to hold this thing together and to keep us informed. People caring about people can accomplish a great deal. I want to believe that the "Chief at Taunton" cares, I know we do and I know some of his staff do; I also hope Mr Revson's job is in jeopardy.

Marty

"The plants have been good to us." Lester Hawkins

I do understand th eneed to (post #15926, reply #5 of 10)

by Dagwood in reply to the country gardener [original] on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 09:11

I do understand th eneed to bring a variety of platforms together into a common software, but I am also disappointed by the desire to increase hitcounts and reduce bouncerates - which does not necessarily lead to goal conversions for Taunton - unless they are hoping that their competitor's advertising revenues will offset the costs of running the forums. Of course I am not a web-guy, and I can't get into the minds of those in charge.

Yesterday there were more responses in this thread than I am seeing now. Including one from Steve who works for Taunton.

I wonder why I am not seeing them anymore.

If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree

Dagwood, There are two (post #15926, reply #6 of 10)

by SteveA in reply to Dagwood [original] on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 10:51

Dagwood,

There are two identical threads. One features some testing of links by various people (or something -- I just skimmed it).

--Steve Aitken, Editor, Fine Gardening

Thanks Steve. I have no idea (post #15926, reply #7 of 10)

by Dagwood in reply to SteveA [original] on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 11:30

Thanks Steve.

I have no idea how I managed to double post. Apologies are in order, and offered here.

If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree

Hoping that someone loses a (post #15926, reply #8 of 10)

Kate_Frank in reply to the country gardener [original] on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 12:46

Hoping that someone loses a job over a change in forum software seems a bit extreme to me. It's really disheartening to read posts like this.

Kate, its looking less and (post #15926, reply #9 of 10)

by Dagwood in reply to

Kate_Frank [original] on Wed, 12/16/2009 - 15:32

Kate, its looking less and less pretty from this side of the Fence. Some research on Jason's background makes him look like a he's more a profit driven individual, and less focused on consumer satisfaction. Of course if Taunton's clients are happy, then you have to invest in what pays the bills, and I understand that.

I'm not suggesting that Mr. Revzon is irresponsible or should be sacked, but I am suggesting that he has moved into a new community and is not adapting to it as quickly as we would like, and that he doesn't seem to be in touch with the community he is trying to reach.

At Lifetime Networks and the Tribune (Chicago) he was working with broadcasters who did not have the same business model as a print only business. Now he is with Taunton, in a very senior role, and is boasting the success of paid use, integrated advertising, and decreased bounce rates, without ever mentioning audience. Wow.

Google metrics are a wonderful way to feel the pulse of your crowd, but using trickery to get longer dwell times, like segmenting videos, integrating ads into video, and forcing users to navigate in an unfamiliar and non-conventional format makes lies out of your metrics such that the very stats you are using to market your product are no longer a reflection of the product you are selling, or the audience you are trying to reach.

Lets say we met online, and you mentioned that you didn't like bald guys. I run out and buy a toupee. Now you'll like me, right? Of course one day you open the funny papers, and there's a pic of me, Dagwood, bald as a peanut. Do you say, hey, he was trying hard to win me over, or do you say, he's a liar, and I'm going for Archie.

Mr. Revzon's toupee is slipping a little. We are all getting a little skeptical. Eventually your clients will make the same discoveries. If its a reduced bounce rate, increased advertising, or a spam email campaign like he advises here: http://www.foliomag.com/2009/web-traffic-and-engagement-tip-sheet that are his measure of success, then I hope he does well. If its retaining the knowledge, community, and quality that were found in your forums, he's missed the mark.

Sorry to get personal, but the more I read on this guy, most of it his own words, the harder it is for me to support things he is doing to this community.

If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree

KAte, I'm not hoping that (post #15926, reply #10 of 10)

by kathymcmo in reply to

Kate_Frank [original] on Fri, 12/18/2009 - 23:23

KAte, I'm not hoping that anyone loses their job over this, but what discouraging to me to read are posts from Taunton staff dismissing the impact of its actions. There's more here than just a "change in software." Taunton has (temporarily I hope and pray) significantly disrupted communities that people really care about.

I understand the business reasons for this and I wish Taunton well in its efforts to increase revenue from these forums.

But I would just once love to read a post from a Taunton representative to say, "you know, we didn't realize the damage this would cause, we didn't do our due diligence, we're really sorry, and if we had it to do all over again, we'd approach it really differently."

Some comments from the Sprouts