The mystery of builders' sand
They say there are no dumb questions, but a whole lot of ignorant people, and I'm one of them... what IS "builders' sand"? For all that it is constantly mentioned in gardening magazines, books, even culture instructions, I've never seen it sold at a garden center. Ace Hardware says it's what they sell as Torpedo Sand, but if that's something that is supposed to improve drainage, it's astonishingly heavy and compact, and the two hanging baskets I used it in practically pulled down the stand.
I've been meaning to ask this for years but it's one of those things I just did without.
Thanks!
Echo
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(post #6980, reply #1 of 17)
'builders sand' is simply washed sharp sand, as opposed to 'bank run' which is sand, gravel and small stones, or beach sand, which is rounded. Because of the sharp edges, it does not compact, yet locks together for stability, so it is ideal for use under bricks or pavers. Think of beach sand as marbles vs builder's sand as sugar cubes.
I sure wouldn't use sand as a primary ingredient for a hanging basket mix- you want perlite or vermiculite for a lighter mix.
Gardening in the heart of the suburban sandbar- LI NY, Zone 7ish...
Selling plants from the Orange box, and doing a little garden work on the side.
LI, NY, almost zone 7, but it's been warmer of late :)
(post #6980, reply #2 of 17)
Our garden and home centres also call it 'horticultural' sand. The point is that the sand you use to improve drainage in fine clay soil should be a bit coarse - coarse enough, say, for it to be impossible to make moulded sand-castles. Use whatever clean coarse-ish sand you can find cheapest.
For pots use vermicullite (sp?) or styrofoam packing peanuts.
(post #6980, reply #3 of 17)
One prominent Brit writer recommended grit. She went on to explain "that by grit, I men GRIT". No further explaination followed.
Ah me. Two nations divided by a common language. (G B Shaw)
BJ
(post #6980, reply #4 of 17)
Grit is just that--somewhat like crushed granite, etc. Coarser than sand, but still small. One gets it at the feed store, and it is used in the raising of turkeys and chickens which cannot "chew" without it. It should be excellent.
The best way to deal with clay is with lots of organic matter. Use it as a mulch at this time of the year, throw on some large earthworms (to do the plowing), continue this process over the years and you will develop some great soil. I have heard somewhere that sand is not very helpful with clay
Use lots of perlite in hanging containers and water often.
(post #6980, reply #5 of 17)
Sandi - you've got it right. Grit is great stuff. Use starter grit (for chicks) to top seed containers, and grower grit (for chickens) to mix into soil. And humus, yes, is the best way to deal with a heavy clay soil. Adding sand is just not practical. You'd need way too much sand to make a difference and then you stand the chance of creating a new problem if it is not thoroughly blended in with the soil. Clay and sand are the major components of cement.
If you want sand for some reason, just buy it in the building materials dept of a big hardware store like Lowe's. Avoid anything that says "Play Sand".
Use grit when you need a lean soil and sharp drainage, especially required by some herbs and xeriscape plants. Also, there are some plants that don't like wet crowns in winter so you cover the crown with grit. Grit may also be used to deter rodents from getting to your bulbs. They don't like digging and chewing through granite. I just picked up a 50# bag of grit at the local co-op for $5. A real deal.
And, as someone else mentioned - you don't put sand in hanging planters. Vermiculite and perlite are great lightweight materials that can be added to a medium of composted forest materials and canadian peat. Be careful of cheap "potting mix", read the ingredients. The cheap stuff is often nothing more than topsoil muck. Better quality materials will include Canadian peat.
(post #6980, reply #6 of 17)
I learned the clay-sand problem first hand, with the coarsest grade of builder's sand at Home Depot. Another option for improving drainage in heavy clay is Permatill, which is a slate aggregate product made here in NC. I first learned about it from Plant Delight's Nursery. It's light weight and porous. I mix it in the soil along with organic matter and also use it for mulching things like sedums, catmint, salvias. I use grit in pots and occasionally around the crowns of plants in the ground, but permatill has been easier for me to use as a soil amendment in the garden.
BTW, the grit I buy around here also comes in Developer, which is 3/16-5/16". I've seen that the company makes two additional sizes for turkeys, ranging up to 5/8" in size, but the farm store I go to doesn't carry those. My grit is grey and white, but I have some from Gretchen's (MD) that is rose colored.
(post #6980, reply #7 of 17)
The two sizes of grit I mentioned were what I am able to get, but you're right, there are many more kinds. If you look for grit on British websites, it tells you the color and what side of the country it's from, etc.
I've heard and read of Permatill and it sounds like a great product. I priced it a few years ago and I seem to recall it being expensive - too much so for me to use. I've checked around again before responding and cannot find a website willing to give the price.
(post #6980, reply #8 of 17)
Permatill is fairly expensive to use as an amendment if you buy it by the bag. I think last time I got it that way, which has been a number of years, it was about $7-8 a bag. Probably a lot more now. I found a local soil/compost place that sells it by the truckload and it is relatively inexpensive in bulk. Permatill is the same as Stalite, which has a lot of construction applications because of it's physical properties, so I'm sure a lot of what you pay for in Volebloc or Permatill (the names it sells under for gardening) is the packaging and marketing. I don't know how hard it would be to buy it in bulk outside of the Carolinas. The company is in Salisbury, NC, which is about an hour and a half from here.
(post #6980, reply #9 of 17)
Lucky You! You've got both location and ability to buy in bulk going for you. I can only manage bagged products and I'm enough distant from the mfgr that on top of the price I'd be paying freight. Still, it sounds like a great product.
(post #6980, reply #10 of 17)
As you have seen there is no real concensus about what is "Builders Sand" and in reality it is what ever the seller wants to call it, about the same thing as "top soil". In different parts of the country different sands will be known as "torpedo", "builders", "play", "garden", and even Lake Michigan beach sand has different grades, after being screened some is sent out to foundrys for casting sand, some is sent to cement mixers, some bagged for "play sand", and some sold as "mortar sand".
If you are going to add sand to clay for drainage it does not make any difference which one you use but you would need a lot of it, enough to change the makeup of the soil so it would be about 45 percent sand and as you have learned you probably should not add sand to a potting mix for a hanging basket, perlite or vermiculite is what you would want there.
West central Michigan along the lake shore
A sign of a good gardener is not a green thumb, rather it is brown knees.
West central Michigan along the lake shore
A sign of a good gardener is not a green thumb, rather it is brown knees.
(post #6980, reply #11 of 17)
"Clay in sand, crops'll stand.
Sand in clay, no way."
(post #6980, reply #12 of 17)
What a wealth of information - all because White Flower Farm's instructions SAID to use "builder's sand" in pots for their begonias.
"Chicken grit" is something I've wondered about too, but sounds like it wouldn't be available in urban/suburban areas nowhere near any farming.
So if I want to build a small dry stone wall, I'd better go to Lowe's or Home Depot and say, "I'm putting in a small dry stone wall, give me the right kind of sand to go underneath it," yes?
Thanks, everyone!
Echo
(post #6980, reply #13 of 17)
I thought the same about chicken grit, and then found out that our co-op had it, there are usually co-ops around even the suburban areas I just checked in the yellow pages and found ours which as it turned out is only about 10 minutes from me! It was just under a different name.
(post #6980, reply #14 of 17)
Not quite. There are usually not knowledgeable people at Lowe's and Home Depot. You would be better off asking that question at a stone dealer or mason supply outfit.
(post #6980, reply #15 of 17)
>> usually not knowledgeable people at Lowe's and Home Depot.
That's a bit rough. Much depends on how well-qualified their job applicants were. I've known of highly qualified people, when laid off from long time jobs, have taken jobs at such places. So qualified help can differ from store to store. Admittedly a mason supply place would be the place to ask, if such exists near you, but for something as simple as sand, I don't believe you'd have a problem at Lowe's. When I needed it I just went to the aisle marked cement products, and there it was. Didn't have to ask anyone.
(post #6980, reply #16 of 17)
In my experience "usually" is a fair characterization. I have run across knowledgeable people from time to time, and when I have questions I seek them out again and again. But, way more than half of them, which qualifies as "usually" for my usage, would not be able to answer technical questions correctly.
Besides, such stores don't carry bulk sand.
(post #6980, reply #17 of 17)
Sorry, I must have skimmed through the posts too quickly; didn't realize he was looking for bulk. In my situation I can't use bulk anything; it's always bags, so I tend to think in that direction.
As to quality folks at chain stores, you may be right in your area, but there have been several times that I was pleasantly surprised by the knowledge of some clerks at Lowe's and Menards. The local Home Depots, though, are a wasteland.