rock gardens
i have been thinking of putting in a rock garden in the back yard does anyone have any suggestions on this??? im open to anything so dont be afraid to say what you think is nice. i would like to put in in the back corner of the yard under the tree so it is fairly shady i also need to know some plants that people decorate a rock garden with....any suggestions are welcome..thanks guys
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
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(post #12016, reply #1 of 59)
If you have a spot with some sun, various varieties of thyme are wonderful for a rock garden. Do you plan to stick plants in between the rocks or just have them on top, spilling over the edge? I have wooly thyme, lemon thyme and Mother of thyme in a raised garden with a rock wall around it and they drape over the rocks very attractively.
Northern Virginia, Zone 7A.
Northern Virginia, Zone 7A.
(post #12016, reply #8 of 59)
i think no i just want them cascading over the top and sides... and i have a pretty sunny place where the garden is going... i live in ohio will thyme grow good here and is it perennial..any suggestions
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
(post #12016, reply #14 of 59)
Carol, I checked on Google and found this, much to my surprise. Learn something new every day.
http://www.taunton.com/finegardening/plantguide/
Just put in a search for thyme. I'm pretty sure it should do fine in your area - I'm assuming you're Zone 6.
Northern Virginia, Zone 7A.
Northern Virginia, Zone 7A.
(post #12016, reply #17 of 59)
yes zone 6..but the link of whatever it was you were trying to show me just brings me back to this home page...i dont know if you want to try again or i just missed what you trying to show me.
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
(post #12016, reply #18 of 59)
By gum, there it is! You'd think I'd learn to check at the top of the page to see what Fine Gardening has there. As many times as I've checked in to see what's going on in the forum, I've never thought to check out the other options listed at the top of the page.
The second to the left, just after "Home" is Plant Guide. That's where I was and there's an search option. Just type in the sort of thyme you want to try and you'll get a description of it and the plant zones it grows in.
Good luck
Northern Virginia, Zone 7A.
Northern Virginia, Zone 7A.
(post #12016, reply #22 of 59)
lol its all right i have days like that too lol
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
(post #12016, reply #2 of 59)
In general, for a rock garden you want plants that are smallish in scale and that will grow well among the rocks. Sedum ternatum, ferns (eg spleenworts, maidenhair fern), gingers (asarum), arisaema, chrysogonum ('green and gold'), cyclamen hederifolium, phlox divericata or stolonifera, epimedium, thalictrum, hepatica, small hostas, iris cristata, hellbores would all work. Depending on the moisture, you may be able to grow pulmonaria and primroses. If the tree is deciduous you'll have enough sun for spring ephemerals like wood anemone and anemonella, and little bulbs (crocus, narcissus, galanthus, leucojum, chionodoxa, tulipa sylvestris). Depending on what zone you're in, you might be able to grow some of those really cool daphnes or small leaved rhododendrons that hate us down here in NC.
North Carolina - zone 7
North Carolina - zone 7
(post #12016, reply #3 of 59)
I have planted many rocks. I have never had one bloom. Am I over fertilizing?
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #12016, reply #4 of 59)
They're like some bamboo species, i.e. blooming is rare. If you're lucky enough to see one you should take pictures and call the local newspaper.
North Carolina - zone 7
North Carolina - zone 7
(post #12016, reply #5 of 59)
As long as they don't die, you must be doing something right.
Jeana
Never try to baptize a cat.
(post #12016, reply #6 of 59)
To be serious though Carol,
every now and then I think about putting in a Rock Garden, then slap myself and move along with "normal" gardens.
Since you are just startin gout, here are some things to bear in mind with rock gardening: Since nothing will grow on the rocks, every seed that falls in the garden will be helped along by gravity and water to the spaces between the rocks. Where your precious plants are (since they can't grow on rocks either). If you have spread fine gravel between the rocks you have created a seedbed. Get ready for weeding.
Weeding is a chore and a pain. I have no patience for it. Now take the weeds and intertwine them with your precious miniature rock garden whatnots (their roots will be wrapped into each other since there is so little prime real estate) and if you are anything like me you will find yourself pulling great wads of goodstuff with every weed.
By year two I would have no good plants left, and only weeds sprouting between the rocks. In year three i would find myself carting all those danged rocks back to wheresoever they came from and restarting the garden as a normal garden.
I prefer to skip the 3 years of frustration and jump straight into a normal garden. Then afgain I also like english edging, and I tried buying folks off to come and pull thistles with pickles. Your logic and mine may be very different.
Some folks have wonderful success growing things in Rock gardens. I don't get along with those people. I tell them to ask Jeana for advice, and she gives it to them, and after that I never talk to those people again. Maybe thats why so many of my "friends" have started rock gardens.
Now before you go thinking unholy things about me, I have nothing against a rock or two in a flowerbed. I have seen some AMAZING rock gardens that make me drool and feel tingly, and wish I could do that (but I know my limits). A rock dropped in the middle of a front yard I take issue with, and I think you can come up with a lot more interesting/creative structure than a rock dropped like something from a horse's rear end in the middle of your garden, but a well placed and interesting specimen does have its place. And one rock every 5 - 10 feet you can weed around and plant around and keep it interesting. But a rockery? Unless its a retaining wall with plantings in it, or a water structure that the rocks are part of, it just isn't for me.
Edited 2/6/2009 2:36 pm ET by Dagwood
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #12016, reply #7 of 59)
im with you dagwood on the whole weeding thing i try to do everthing in my power ( which isnt much lol) to keep them pests out of my garden now....but i was thinking about what if i cement inbetween the rocks would that solve anything...but i live in ohio and i dont know what is going to grow in it i would like to have some things cascading over the rocks any ideas....im in zone 6....
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
(post #12016, reply #10 of 59)
If you put concrete between the rocks, how will the plants grow? You lost me.
I am a really bad reference on this. Like, I just can't make a traditional "Alpine" garden look like anything more than a pile of rocks with weeds growing in it. I grow some wicked awesome ragweed though.
The best I have done in a rock garden is to grow mother hen & her chicks. Even the "Treadble Herbs" that are supposed to grow between cobblestones die for me, so please don't take my advice for much.
If this is one of your early attempts at gardening, I would suggest that you plant the garden you wnat, get it established, and then introduce the rocks to fill spaces as time goes on. This way the spaces where the weeds would get established will be shaded already. Once the plants are established, the rocks will force them outwards to make it look like they are cascading.
Here's how I would do it if I were goin gto try a rock garden (again). As I said before, this isn't my thing.
1. Sit down with paper and pencil and lay out the garden. (including the rocks)
2. Go get the plants and plant them according to the plan.
3. Buy the cheapest annuals on the market and plant clumps of them where the rocks are supposed to be. (this should help shade out weeds - I may put in 1 or 2 of the largest rocks at this stage)
4. Do this for 1 or 2 summers to get the garden established.
5. Gather rocks and replace the annuals with them.
Now others who are *real* gardeners will likely chime in here with better advice, but all I can say is that when I have gone whole hog and planted miniature this and alpine that, I have ended up ripping them out or killing them off very quickly. Remember also that alpine plants tend to like poor soils with LOTS of drainage. If you go to the garden shows you will see clear differences between rock gardens and alpine rock gardens.
Good luck!
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #12016, reply #12 of 59)
when i mention the cement is because i want a half circle around the tree in the corner of my yard but i want the rocks to stack up about 2-3 fett tall ..i gues this would be considered a border then cement these rocks together and plant inside this border of rocks...with the plants cascading over the sides of this rock wall.. is any of this making sense to you? lolol i think im explaining it right....
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
(post #12016, reply #13 of 59)
Sounds like you want a stone retaining wall rather than a rock garden. Be careful about how deep you bury the roots of your tree or you might kill it. I've done something similar with trees on the downhill side of a sloping lot, but I never did more than 1/4-1/3 of the way around and never that deep. What kind of tree is it and what is the grade/slope of the lot?
North Carolina - zone 7
North Carolina - zone 7
(post #12016, reply #16 of 59)
i never thought that i might kill the tree then that would defeat my purpose..i really dont know what kind of tree it is... i think its just a simple maple tree. but im not sure i never really got into trees it was already here when i moved in and i thought it would be nice to plant around it..i never thought putting a wall up that high would kill it...
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
(post #12016, reply #20 of 59)
Another thing to beware of if its a maple you are looking to work around...
The roots of maples grow up as well as down. You may have noticed this when you tried to mow your lawn and there were lots of roots to bump and grind over. As the tree matures, those roots will become larger at the surface of the soil.
The way maple roots grow, any offshoots on the top half of the root will continue to grow upwards, while shoots from the bottom half will grow downwards, forming a rootball that is tangled and shrubby (like an afro) as opposed to a taproot that is very directional (Like a conehead).
Although your garden idea will cover the surface roots, eventually they will grow new offshoots that will come to the surface. This may be in 5 years, it may be in 10, but the growth will continue to be omni-directional with maple roots.
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #12016, reply #21 of 59)
im not quite understanding about the maple does this mean that it will eventually come up through the soil that i put it and is this a bad thing??
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
(post #12016, reply #23 of 59)
oh, yes, definitely! many years ago, i created a new shade garden bed under a grove of maples (and a huge 100-year-old copper beech). it didn't take too many years for those maples to send what became a dense mat of rootlings up into the lovely soil i had put in for the new bed. i fought them for years, and have to admit that nothing ever actually died, but didn't thrive, either. that bed was always dry due to the root competition for water. hostas did the best for me as it takes a lot of effort to kill a hosta! i also had bleeding heart (not a happy camper) and lots of violets that colonized everywhere (but since i am fond of them i didn't mind)...
(post #12016, reply #25 of 59)
my husband is telling me that the tree is not a maple tree so now i dont know what it is...but for the long run this is prolly not a good idea then? do all trees do this because i dont have any roots right under the ground that i can feel..there are not any lumps in the soil by its base but i dont know what it is im just tyring to make it a little prettier.
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
(post #12016, reply #27 of 59)
okay, here's some advice for what it's worth! 1) whatever the tree is, do NOT pile soil OR mulch up high near the trunk. this causes rot or insect damage, to say nothing of voles nesting. 2) you can certainly make a garden under trees, just be aware of the roots - try not to cut too many of the small ones as these are the feeder roots for the tree. if there are large roots, you can make pockets of good soil around them to plant in. dig carefully. 3) hostas would be fine here. you can't find much that is as easy as hosta, and they can pack a great 'WOW' factor. get a variety of foliage size/colors but keep to the odd number rule - three or five of one kind. it just looks better and not spotty. 4) check out by googling other shade/semi-shade loving plants. 5) be aware that beds under trees will be competing heavily for water. 6) relax, have fun and enjoy! you can make this area pretty, don't worry!
Edited 2/11/2009 2:13 pm ET by roxanna
(post #12016, reply #29 of 59)
i am worrying. i just dont know what to do with this tree i thought about planting some type of ivy under it and just letting it crawl the tree. and putting a nice bench in front of it or off to the side...what do you think will the ivy hurt the tree??
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
(post #12016, reply #24 of 59)
Um, well, it depends. If you want a garden of roots, I suppose it is a good thing.
For me though, I prefer a garden of plants. If you prevent th eroots from growing up into the garden (not sure how you would do this without expensive stuff like concrete) then the tree won't be able to respire the way its creator intended and the tree will suffer. So you have a challenge on your hands - do yo uwant the tree to be weakened, or the plants to be weakened? Now for the good news.
Go for a walk in the woods. Choose a spring day, and take along a digital camera. Look for maples, and take photos of anything interesting you see growing at the base of the trees. Likely you will see loads of maple seedlings and some saplings, but there will be other things as well. Grasses, some trout lilies, maybe some False Solomons Seal if its a moist area.
When you get home, take those photos and find out the details of the plants. What is their genus, what growing conditions do they like? Obviously, your maple can handle those conditions. Now that you know the details of what Mother Nature/The Creator/God/Whatever is doing, you know how to do it right.
Find other plants in something like "The American Horticultural Society's A-Z..." or another reference that match the zone, growing conditions, and feel you want for your backyard. I am betting that without any changes you could get some interesting grasses, Solomon's Seal, Lily of the Valley, Violets, spring bulbs, and toad lilies going in there. That would be a high maintenance garden though since better than half of those plants would want to spread quite vigorously, and once naturalized would be an absolute beast to get out of the maple roots.
But you get the idea. See what Nature is doing, and use that as your template. From the template develop a palette of colours, habits and shades using modern plants as well as traditionals, lay out your garden, start planting. Oh, and don't forget, english edging always looks best . ;)
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #12016, reply #26 of 59)
after reading everyones advice im not sure this is a good place to put in a low maintenance to moderate maintenance garden then huh? i have found out that the tree is not a maple though. but i dont know what it is..
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
(post #12016, reply #28 of 59)
Most of what I listed in my original response could be planted under your tree without a deep retaining wall. I'll try to post some photos later of what's growing under my trees.
North Carolina - zone 7
North Carolina - zone 7
(post #12016, reply #30 of 59)
i quess i just really like the look of the retaining wall but i really dont know where else to put it..i have a completely blank back yard so the skies the limit....
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
(post #12016, reply #31 of 59)
Here are some pics posted ages ago where I did essentially what you are describing to make a pond (in your mind's eye, remove the pond and insert a tree trunk) I was never totally satisfied with this garden, but what th eheck, its what you're thinking of.
<img>http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/at.asp?webtag=tp-overthefence&guid=9A721505-2C3E-4CAC-A8A2-D4D7015A728E&frames=no</img>
Never mind that the grass hadn't been cut in weeks, this is what you are after, right? If you put it in, you will learn to be very exact with the weed whacher, either that or you will forever be running out of twine.
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #12016, reply #32 of 59)
I love that clematis.
North Carolina - zone 7
North Carolina - zone 7
(post #12016, reply #33 of 59)
Thanks Karen. I think this was either the first or second season for that bed, the stuff I was most proud of is all dead now :( but I don't live there anymore either.
In there we had a cornus florida dogwood and an all-summer beauty hydrangea which I "imported" from Tennessee .(actually I think I moved the Hydrangea to my in-laws), the clems (don't remember which ones they were) some foxglove (didn't do well at all), a low-bush cranberry (which was super-cool), and various other bits and bobs.
The raised beds were mostly soild from digging the pond, so there was not importing of soil needed, but the soil was less than great.
When we moved out, the new owner didn't even move into the house, and he never cared for the yard at all. Our old neighbours tried to rescue some of the plants, but never really succeeded in getting much out of there. Its too bad, but the gardens did serve their purpose - they raised the property value and gave us the curb appeal we were after.
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #12016, reply #34 of 59)
i love that clematis i started one last year in my front yard and i was trying to train it to go up the wrought itron front porch but it was still little. cant wait for it to get bigger....the garden is really nice the only problem is the tree sits right up against my fence and the neighbors fence and i dont think this would look right without wrapping around the back of the tree and since this is pretty mmuch impossible i have to find some type of triangular setup...i just dont know what to do to make that tree stand out anymore lol
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**
WILLING TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN TEACH ME....
**CAROL**