Honkin' huge hedge
I have a long, long property line I want to kind of close off. Usually I'm full of design ideas, but lacking in execution. Here's waht I'm thinking. Lets throw some jello at the wall and see what sticks.
This hedge will be (GASP!) about 350 feet long. Soil is sand with some good earth about 2 feet down. Usually quite moist as the property was backfilled wetlands. Here is the image. Let me know where you can improve on it...
I want low maintenance (no trimming/weeding/etc.) so the hedge will need to look "country-ish." I am thinking of putting in:
- Central row of Kolkwitzia (beauty Bush) for early bloom
- Outer row of alternating Philadelphus (Mock orange) and *Brainfart* (I forget what this one is called - low bush with big, scented white flowers with red centers. Blooms in August.)
- Clematis of varying varieties from the discount table vining through everything.
I'm thinking that this should provide an ongoing bloom in mostly white-ish shades (with the exception of the clems). My concerns are:
- Beauty Bush will smother anything within 15 feet.
- When mock orange flowers are done they really look DONE. Like ugly until 2 rains have come through.
- Can clems climb a beauty bush well? I've grown them on other stuff, but not BB.
- Will the Wild Grape vines smother the whole works regardless of what I plant
- How in the heck can I propigate enough plants to do this!
Anyway - I watch for your thoughts...
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
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(post #15408, reply #1 of 78)
Oh, let me tell, you, if you have a will, there is a way to propagate that much material, easy... I can run through it with you, if you like.
You didn't mention how much property you have, but I am assuming with that sort of property line, there is a big enough area to propagate and gow on some items in pots a season or so before actually growing them out. Are deer an issue? Do you have water readily available? Why only those plants? There are a lot more great plants. Personally I would mix it up a bit and so groupings and bring in some other great shrubs.
There are lots of lilacs that do not mildew that have a long bloom time and different spcies of lilac can extend the bloom cycle. What about bridal wreath spiraeas? What about the tardiva hydrangeas? Dwarf-leaf artic blue willow? Forsythia? Regular old Annabelle hydrangea? Ninebarks?
I guess I would make a list of easy to propagate and fast growing shrubs and go from there. Buy the biggest plant of each you can, plant them, and then take cuttings to within an inch of their lives!
I would try to eradicate the wild grapes, Round-up and hacking away at them after that.
(post #15408, reply #2 of 78)
Good ideas Olivia.
On that note, the "All summer beauty" Hydrangea we picked up a Jeannafest (Oh, those were the days!) is still surviving in a sheltered spot with southern exposure at my in-laws house (zone 5, and next to a lake which makes for a bit of a temperate micro-climate). This thing has been coddled and nurtured since I brought it up here. I have them reading it bedtime stories.
Anyone have tips for propigating it? Wanna lay bets that i can kill ithe cuttings before roots take, or that it dies as soon as a cutting is planted?
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #15408, reply #3 of 78)
Rooting the hydrangea is easy, but best done in mid-summer.
I love kolkwitzia. It's hard to beat, especially once it get big. You can try, but it might beat you back. It does make a a big shrub. It has the opposite shape of the mock orange which is more uprightish. The kolk is technically vase shaped, but the branches will weigh themselves down and make a very rounded shrub. It's tough as nails and grows fast and, except for removing dead wood, it needs no other help. I enjoy mock oranges in other people's yards.
Is it too cold up there for Lonicera fragrantissima (I think that's the name), winter honeysuckle? It's another countryish looking no maintenance hedge. The fragrance can't be beat.
Jeana
Never try to baptize a cat.
(post #15408, reply #6 of 78)
Looks like I'll be busy next spring/summer then. I'll come to you for advice. You know EVERYTHING.
Yeah about the Kolkwitzia, but you know the big rounding shape I'm after. I know as soon as those branches flop, they'll smother everything nearby.
You remove dead wood on a Beauty bush. Huh. Who knew!
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #15408, reply #12 of 78)
I'm also wondering if the mystery creature is a rose of sharon. I can't think of much with blooms that big. I'm pretty sure it isn't a camellia.
Jeana
Never try to baptize a cat.
(post #15408, reply #14 of 78)
Heres what it looks like before it blooms...
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UhHjaWMDClw/SmnnNQl0LAI/AAAAAAAAAFE/S7W5avy_PO8/s1600-h/Copy+of+P1100303.JPG
EDIT to ADD: So I am at my in-laws place right now, and they suggested thaqt it could be a hardy Hibiscus. DING-DING-DING I think we have a winner.
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/52775/ (Exact Match) - I am such a sucker for white flowers.
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
Edited 10/11/2009 8:41 pm ET by Dagwood
Edited 10/11/2009 8:44 pm ET by Dagwood
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #15408, reply #15 of 78)
Think you might be stretching the child labor laws a bit there, Dag?
Marty
"The plants have been good to us." Lester Hawkins
Marty
"The plants have been good to us." Lester Hawkins
(post #15408, reply #17 of 78)
They have laws about that? Well whatever you do, don't tell the kids.
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
Edited 10/13/2009 10:10 am ET by Dagwood
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #15408, reply #19 of 78)
Let us know what it looks like when it blooms. Is it a male?
Jeana
Never try to baptize a cat.
(post #15408, reply #21 of 78)
It must be a male. Its the last one to wake up in the spring, lolls around not doing much, then shows up to lend a hand with the colour in the bed just as the hard work is done for the season.
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #15408, reply #23 of 78)
"Is it too cold up there for Lonicera fragrantissima (I think that's the name), winter honeysuckle? It's another countryish looking no maintenance hedge. The fragrance can't be beat.
Jeana"
Just like you to get me all excited about yet another plant that isn't available here. Looked it up on the factsheet and it shows zone 4a, which would be my property, but I can't find any record of it being grown around here. Still hunting. I could see alternating these with the BB's.
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #15408, reply #24 of 78)
Where's Nan when you need her? I bet she could track it down if it's up there.
You live in a "coldish" area? Really?
Jeana
Never try to baptize a cat.
(post #15408, reply #25 of 78)
I found it at a mailorder place in BC. They are a lot milder than we are. I also found it in Ohio. They aren't too much different. More excitement - Waterloo County lists it as a drought resistant plant... that's within an hour's drive. Still no commercial listings for it locally though.
On the Gov't website it shows 2 registered plantings of it in Ontario. Of course, a lot of folks aren't aware of the site yet. It only shows 5 beauty bush plantings in the province, and there are more than that in my yard.
Maybe there is hope. I might order one from BC in the spring and just see if it survives next winter.
My Definition of "Coldish" and yours may vary. We are about 2 hours North of Nanook. Here's the lowdown from Wikipedia...
Barrie has warm, humid summers and cold, snowy winters. The proximity to the Great Lakes does moderate temperatures somewhat. Barrie is located in Ontario's snow belt region, where lake-effect snow falls throughout the winter. An average of 238 centimetres (95 inches) of snow falls annually, the snowfall gradient is tight therefore snowfall totals tend to be significantly higher just north of the city, as compared with the south end. As a result, there are numerous winter recreation activities and facilities in the surrounding area, including skiing, snow tubing and snowboarding resorts, snowmobile trails and ice fishing. The Barrie area and Simcoe County are well known for heavy thunderstorm activity in late spring and summer and less frequently, the occasional funnel cloud or tornado.
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
Edited 10/14/2009 1:11 pm ET by Dagwood
Edited 10/14/2009 1:51 pm ET by Dagwood
Edited 10/14/2009 1:52 pm ET by Dagwood
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #15408, reply #26 of 78)
Barrie Weather Data: Its not like we're frozen year 'round up here. We leave that for Minnesota.
[hide]Weather data for Barrie
Month
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
Dec
Year
Record high °C (°F)
14
(57)
14
(57)
24
(75)
30
(86)
32
(90)
35
(95)
36
(97)
36
(97)
33
(91)
28
(82)
21.5
(71)
19.5
(67)
36
(97)
Average high °C (°F)
-3.2
(26)
-2
(28)
3.2
(38)
10.6
(51)
18.1
(65)
23.4
(74)
26
(79)
24.8
(77)
20.1
(68)
13.2
(56)
6.1
(43)
0
(32)
11.7
(53)
Average low °C (°F)
-12.8
(9)
-12.1
(10)
-7.5
(19)
0
(32)
6.5
(44)
12
(54)
15
(59)
14.2
(58)
9.6
(49)
3.7
(39)
-1.4
(29)
-7.9
(18)
1.6
(35)
Record low °C (°F)
-35
(-31)
-33
(-27)
-30.5
(-23)
-13
(9)
-3
(27)
1
(34)
6
(43)
3
(37)
-1.5
(29)
-6.5
(20)
-19.5
(-3)
-32
(-26)
-35
(-31)
Rainfall cm (inches)
1.53
(0.6)
1.33
(0.5)
2.89
(1.1)
5.78
(2.3)
7.72
(3)
8.66
(3.4)
7.34
(2.9)
9.26
(3.6)
9.76
(3.8)
7.43
(2.9)
6.21
(2.4)
2.13
(0.8)
70.02
(27.6)
Snowfall cm (inches)
80.2
(31.6)
39.5
(15.6)
28.1
(11.1)
5
(2)
0.1
(0)
0
(0)
0
(0)
0
(0)
0
(0)
2.5
(1)
20.6
(8.1)
62.4
(24.6)
238.4
(93.9)
Source: Environment Canada[12] 2008-08-31
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #15408, reply #28 of 78)
That's an impressive spread between your average low and your record low. I would hate that.
North Carolina - zone 7
North Carolina - zone 7
(post #15408, reply #29 of 78)
I still hold a pet theory that the freeze-thaw cycles we get in the winter do more damage to the gardens than either the freezing temps or the snow. Still though, it amazes me that folks thing we are so cold when the weather is often worse in Michigan, Minnesota, Upstate NY, Pennsylvania, and a lot of other places than it is here.
We get cold, but the fluctuations are more of an issue to me. Thumbs up to you for noticing!
Now back to the hedge - I'll see if I can get that Lonicera here. It does look like a winner.
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #15408, reply #31 of 78)
The record high was pretty impressive, too.
Jeana
Never try to baptize a cat.
(post #15408, reply #30 of 78)
In case you didn't know this, maybe I shouldn't point this out, but there's a gold leaved version of kolk now. Very tempting.
Jeana
Never try to baptize a cat.
(post #15408, reply #32 of 78)
There's a blazing red leafed version in my yard right now. They really put on a show once it cools off.
I was looking at the ones I need to move as I hopped into the car to head for work this morning, and thinking that I could pull it away from the house and make the a hedge for the driveway. I can't explain the geometry well, but it would work nicely. Since we have a driveway width big enough to park 5 cars side by each, 2 deep, I wonder how th ekolks would handle th esnow load in the winter.
Anyone have experience with really burying these guys that can give a damage report? I've never bothered with tenting/protecting anythign in the yard, and I'm not about to start (it would never end).
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #15408, reply #33 of 78)
My one kolk is about five feet from the edge of our driveway and gets buried in snow that we shovel over there each winter. It is about 8 or 9 feet tall and was buried at least halfway up last winter thanks to our constant snowfalls, and showed no damage from the snow that I could detect. There are lots of them planted in this area and we had a LOT of snow last winter and they all bloomed beautifully this summer. So unless you plan to push snow into them with a snowplow I don't think you need to worry.
(post #15408, reply #34 of 78)
Es-yay on the oh-plow-sna.
I have shovelled our driveway twice. We hire a plow. There is a 200 foot run before you reach the parking area. The Kolk would be under about 5 feet of snow by the end of January.Maybe I'll think up some other plan.
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #15408, reply #37 of 78)
When I said unless you are going to snowplow them, I meant actually running into them physically with the snowplow. I don't believe the snow itself would hurt them. I had a few shrubs that were totally buried under snow last winter and they were fine. If you put a couple of posts there as a barrier to keep the snowplow from running into them until they are big enough to speak for themselves, they would probably be fine.
By the way, I posted a photo of my beauty bush this summer that you might be able to find by doing a subject search, just to inspire you to plant them.
Edited 10/15/2009 4:18 pm ET by 1946
(post #15408, reply #35 of 78)
Here's what the propoerty looks like just for your reference. The hedge would go along our frontage, right on th eproperty line. I don't want ot donate that much plant matter to the county. Since it would be on property, it would run right next to the parking area (Driveway 1 - close to house).
In about 3 years the Kolks/Lonicera should have enough growth to start providing some interest, and a decent screen in 5 years or so. The other stuff would be filled in in years 3+. No sense planting them before I get a sense of th eshape/size/infilling of the kolks.
Every 50 feet or so, I could see putting in a sugar Maple just for structure.
Every spring you all would be invited up to pull grape ivy out of the hedge.
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #15408, reply #38 of 78)
You said elsewhaere that you've lived in 7 places in the last ten years. Why care about what it's going to look like in five; you'll be living someplace else!
Marty
"The plants have been good to us." Lester Hawkins
Marty
"The plants have been good to us." Lester Hawkins
(post #15408, reply #41 of 78)
In case you want to check the beauty bush photos, it is post no. 10234.1. Just to encourage you not to give up on the beauty bush idea..........
(post #15408, reply #36 of 78)
The gold leaved one is gold in the growing season and is *supposed* to have red foliage in the fall, too.
Kolks have *really* hard wood. I think they'd be sturdier against snow piles than most shrubs.
Jeana
Never try to baptize a cat.
(post #15408, reply #13 of 78)
I've had success layering hydrangea. Choose a low branch, weight the tip down on bare ground and next summer you'll have a new plant to cut away from "mother". I got 5 new "Limelight" that way this year.
(post #15408, reply #22 of 78)
Olivia, I was just goin gback through this thread and realized I missed replying to you.
We have an acre and a half, but we are in a cold-ish area inbetween zone 4 and 5, depending on how optimistic the garden centers are. We do have a creek running through the property, so water is not an issue. We also have a fairly high water table.
No greenhouse or coldframe, and no time to build either. Unless I want another half-built project in the yard. I would love to hear your propigation suggestions. I've never had much luck with it.
I understand your suggestion to mix things up, but I think this plan allows for lots of colour and continuous bloom. By mixing th eHardy Hydrangeas a bit, we would get some variety in the late summer and fall blooms. The clems will also offer variety. Underplantings would be whatever I threw in there, so variety would happen there. I prefer a hedge to a garden though since the hedge would take less maintenance. In my opinion, this hedge should offer consistency in plants. You probably have a dozen suggestions to the contrary, but thats whay my mind's eye sees for this spot.
We have a lilac on the property. It is being encouraged to become th ehedge along the driveway. It has another 50 feet to spread out. I cheer for it every morning and hope for the best.
Totally agree on the wild grape vine. I actually saw a number of nature sites encouraging planting the stuff for habitat and food. What are those people thinking! I believe it was sent here to punish me. We have made inroads, and some of our trees are showing signs of recovery but it will be a long time before we reach eradication.
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
If it can die, I can kill it.
Certified Brown Thumb, 4th degree
(post #15408, reply #4 of 78)
Might your brianfart shrubs be rose of sharon? Or some type of hibiscus? Your potential hedge sounds lovely, especially the beauty bushes and clematis choices. About wild grape vines, give them an inch and they will take a mile. Whack them! Or get a goat and teach it to eat grape vines.
(post #15408, reply #5 of 78)
Give weeds (grapes) an inch and they'll take your yard.
Grapes are especially hard to eradicate. I've had pretty good results by cutting vines back to about 1-2' and immediately poking the cut end in a slightly diluted jar of RoundUp and leaving it there for a few days. Spraying rarely does it and you can cut them back till the cows come home. Young grapes can be dug.
Jeana
Never try to baptize a cat.